Wednesday, May 27, 2009
Krugman Contradicts Krugman on California
Earlier this week Paul Krugman's NYT column discussed the sorry state of California finances. According to Krugman, the reason the Golden State is in such a hole these last few years, is because of a tax revolt in 1978:
For those who don't know about it, Prop. 13 was awesome. (I am well aware of its details because of my time spent working for Arthur Laffer, who at the time was one of its biggest proponents.) By limiting real estate taxes to 1 percent of the assessed value, it overnight cut property taxes by more than half. (!) The ballot initiative's authors were also smart to add in a provision that the assessed value could rise at most by 2 percent per year, unless there were a transfer of ownership. So for people who stayed in their homes, the most their property taxes could rise was 2 percent a year.
In addition, Prop. 13 required that both houses of the state legislature had to get a two-thirds vote in order to pass any further tax hikes. You wouldn't expect something like this to come out of California, now would you? (But then again Ronald Reagan came out of there during the same period.)
OK so now you can see what Krugman is talking about in the block quotation above. But still, what does that have to do with the current crisis? How does California's 11-percent unemployment rate (cited by Krugman early in the article) relate to Prop. 13?
Isn't that funny? California's economy is in the toilet because its taxes are too low? For what it's worth, the Tax Foundation says that in 2008, California's state and local "burden of taxation" was 6th highest in the nation. (That's somewhat near California's 5th highest unemployment rate; an interesting coincidence.)
But don't worry, the rest of us are safe from California's irrational aversion to taxes:
Now wait just a second. It sure sounds like Krugman is saying California should raise taxes now, in order to reduce its budget deficit. (Doesn't that sound like what he's saying?)
But in his December 2008 NYT article, Krugman warned the state governors not to worry about reducing their deficits, since that's what Herbert Hoover foolishly did in 1932.
OK OK, maybe Krugman would clarify and say that California is in danger of scaring away potential bondholders, and so it needs to raise taxes not to entirely close the deficit, but just to keep people willing to lend to it.
But no, that doesn't really work either, because in this blog post earlier this month, Krugman explained that if the Chinese decided to stop buying so much Treasury debt (thereby driving up interest rates), that would actually boost the American economy. So if people who lived outside California stopped lending them money (even though the Golden State--heh heh--has a constitutional requirement for a balanced budget), that should boost gross state product, right? (The specific mechanism in the China example was that it would weaken the dollar and thus boost exports. Can anyone translate that into a case where different regions use the same currency? I mean, the choice of currency shouldn't affect the trade flows, right? But then again I am constantly mystified by the results of a Keynesian model.)
The more I try to reconcile these three writings by Krugman, the more I think that he just grabs whatever argument he needs at the time, in order to justify bigger government and redistributionism. I know that sounds petty to say, but really, that's the one common link in just about everything Krugman writes. As Scott Sumner put it recently:
The seeds of California’s current crisis were planted more than 30 years ago, when voters overwhelmingly passed Proposition 13, a ballot measure that placed the state’s budget in a straitjacket. Property tax rates were capped, and homeowners were shielded from increases in their tax assessments even as the value of their homes rose.
The result was a tax system that is both inequitable and unstable. It’s inequitable because older homeowners often pay far less property tax than their younger neighbors. It’s unstable because limits on property taxation have forced California to rely more heavily than other states on income taxes, which fall steeply during recessions.
For those who don't know about it, Prop. 13 was awesome. (I am well aware of its details because of my time spent working for Arthur Laffer, who at the time was one of its biggest proponents.) By limiting real estate taxes to 1 percent of the assessed value, it overnight cut property taxes by more than half. (!) The ballot initiative's authors were also smart to add in a provision that the assessed value could rise at most by 2 percent per year, unless there were a transfer of ownership. So for people who stayed in their homes, the most their property taxes could rise was 2 percent a year.
In addition, Prop. 13 required that both houses of the state legislature had to get a two-thirds vote in order to pass any further tax hikes. You wouldn't expect something like this to come out of California, now would you? (But then again Ronald Reagan came out of there during the same period.)
OK so now you can see what Krugman is talking about in the block quotation above. But still, what does that have to do with the current crisis? How does California's 11-percent unemployment rate (cited by Krugman early in the article) relate to Prop. 13?
Even more important, however, Proposition 13 made it extremely hard to raise taxes, even in emergencies: no state tax rate may be increased without a two-thirds majority in both houses of the State Legislature. And this provision has interacted disastrously with state political trends.
Isn't that funny? California's economy is in the toilet because its taxes are too low? For what it's worth, the Tax Foundation says that in 2008, California's state and local "burden of taxation" was 6th highest in the nation. (That's somewhat near California's 5th highest unemployment rate; an interesting coincidence.)
But don't worry, the rest of us are safe from California's irrational aversion to taxes:
Will the same thing happen to the nation as a whole?
Last week Bill Gross of Pimco, the giant bond fund, warned that the U.S. government may lose its AAA debt rating in a few years, thanks to the trillions it’s spending to rescue the economy and the banks. Is that a real possibility?
Well, in a rational world Mr. Gross’s warning would make no sense. America’s projected deficits may sound large, yet it would take only a modest tax increase to cover the expected rise in interest payments — and right now American taxes are well below those in most other wealthy countries. The fiscal consequences of the current crisis, in other words, should be manageable.
But that presumes that we’ll be able, as a political matter, to act responsibly. The example of California shows that this is by no means guaranteed....
So will America follow California into ungovernability? Well, California has some special weaknesses that aren’t shared by the federal government. In particular, tax increases at the federal level don’t require a two-thirds majority, and can in some cases bypass the filibuster. So acting responsibly should be easier in Washington than in Sacramento.
Now wait just a second. It sure sounds like Krugman is saying California should raise taxes now, in order to reduce its budget deficit. (Doesn't that sound like what he's saying?)
But in his December 2008 NYT article, Krugman warned the state governors not to worry about reducing their deficits, since that's what Herbert Hoover foolishly did in 1932.
OK OK, maybe Krugman would clarify and say that California is in danger of scaring away potential bondholders, and so it needs to raise taxes not to entirely close the deficit, but just to keep people willing to lend to it.
But no, that doesn't really work either, because in this blog post earlier this month, Krugman explained that if the Chinese decided to stop buying so much Treasury debt (thereby driving up interest rates), that would actually boost the American economy. So if people who lived outside California stopped lending them money (even though the Golden State--heh heh--has a constitutional requirement for a balanced budget), that should boost gross state product, right? (The specific mechanism in the China example was that it would weaken the dollar and thus boost exports. Can anyone translate that into a case where different regions use the same currency? I mean, the choice of currency shouldn't affect the trade flows, right? But then again I am constantly mystified by the results of a Keynesian model.)
The more I try to reconcile these three writings by Krugman, the more I think that he just grabs whatever argument he needs at the time, in order to justify bigger government and redistributionism. I know that sounds petty to say, but really, that's the one common link in just about everything Krugman writes. As Scott Sumner put it recently:
Over the last few months I have had a chance to closely examine many of Krugman’s recent and past writings on fiscal and monetary policy. One thing that I notice is that Krugman is very skilled at making an argument. He can use the same basic model to make either monetary or fiscal policy seem like the only reasonable option. All that is required is that one tweak the assumptions in such a way that the less favored policy seems either undesirable or infeasible.
Comments:
Why do you think prop. 13 was "awesome". It obviously didn't constrain government spending in any way as evidenced by California's current fiscal disaster. So, what good did it do.
As an Austrian, I would have thought you'd highlight the distortionary effects of such a tax and be more critical of
the supply-side benefits of prop 13 as it encourages the allocation of capital into residential real estate (i.e. consumption) at the expense of more productive capital projects.
Low taxes in one sector while keeping the overall level of taxes high, results in the same sectoral imbalances predicted by ABCT. No?
As an Austrian, I would have thought you'd highlight the distortionary effects of such a tax and be more critical of
the supply-side benefits of prop 13 as it encourages the allocation of capital into residential real estate (i.e. consumption) at the expense of more productive capital projects.
Low taxes in one sector while keeping the overall level of taxes high, results in the same sectoral imbalances predicted by ABCT. No?
As an Austrian, I would have thought you'd highlight the distortionary effects of such a tax...
When you say "tax," you mean a constitutional rule capping the rate of a particular tax? And as an Austrian I should oppose that?
You agree with Krugman that if Californians had higher property taxes, they'd have lower income taxes. I disagree. I think they would have had higher spending.
Prop. 13 had some spending restraints too, and the CA economy did a lot better relative to the country in the early 1980s. But then the Sacramento pols found ways around the limits and things went to poopy.
When you say "tax," you mean a constitutional rule capping the rate of a particular tax? And as an Austrian I should oppose that?
You agree with Krugman that if Californians had higher property taxes, they'd have lower income taxes. I disagree. I think they would have had higher spending.
Prop. 13 had some spending restraints too, and the CA economy did a lot better relative to the country in the early 1980s. But then the Sacramento pols found ways around the limits and things went to poopy.
Bob,
Thanks for your response. I enjoy your blog.
You said:
"But then the Sacramento pols found ways around the limits and things went to poopy."
But this just proves my point that prop 13 was no restraint at all.
Your take sounds similar to Rothbard's in which any tax advantage should be applauded, but I think that approach can lead to major sectoral misallocations of capital, and in the case of prop 13 is functionally equivalent to granting special privileges to home builders and tax accountants. And it speaks against Rothbard's optimal tax policy, the poll or head tax.
Thanks for your response. I enjoy your blog.
You said:
"But then the Sacramento pols found ways around the limits and things went to poopy."
But this just proves my point that prop 13 was no restraint at all.
Your take sounds similar to Rothbard's in which any tax advantage should be applauded, but I think that approach can lead to major sectoral misallocations of capital, and in the case of prop 13 is functionally equivalent to granting special privileges to home builders and tax accountants. And it speaks against Rothbard's optimal tax policy, the poll or head tax.
The more I try to reconcile these three writings by Krugman, the more I think that he just grabs whatever argument he needs at the time, in order to justify bigger government and redistributionism.This is, of course, in contrast to Bob_Murphy, who is 100% concerned with the truth of his statements rather than the possibility that someone might marshal them in support of policies he opposes. Which is why he would never say something as asinine as:
-There's no scarcity in the atmosphere.
-A mechanism for handling scarcity that involves a quick-and-dirty assignment of property rights, ownership, and transferability is "not a market solution".
-Caps on American CO2 emissions are dumb because there would be leakage, while there would never possibly be leakage when insurers pay people to stop using inefficient technologies, which is a great idea.
-Altruism just isn't enough to enable people to figure how to economize on resources, but it's *more* than enough if the resource happens to be "total net fossil fuel emissions". (Read Kling's point 6, because you sure wouldn't listen to it from me.)
And by "would never say", I of course mean "would say while enduring his foot jammed down his throat".
It sure is a good thing that we live in a world where the good guys don't try to contort reality to fit a narrow, self-serving, short-sighted agenda..
(P.S.: Did you notice the sarcasm there?)
-There's no scarcity in the atmosphere.
-A mechanism for handling scarcity that involves a quick-and-dirty assignment of property rights, ownership, and transferability is "not a market solution".
-Caps on American CO2 emissions are dumb because there would be leakage, while there would never possibly be leakage when insurers pay people to stop using inefficient technologies, which is a great idea.
-Altruism just isn't enough to enable people to figure how to economize on resources, but it's *more* than enough if the resource happens to be "total net fossil fuel emissions". (Read Kling's point 6, because you sure wouldn't listen to it from me.)
And by "would never say", I of course mean "would say while enduring his foot jammed down his throat".
It sure is a good thing that we live in a world where the good guys don't try to contort reality to fit a narrow, self-serving, short-sighted agenda..
(P.S.: Did you notice the sarcasm there?)
Okay, now back to Bob's explicit point.
Far be it from me to say something nice about a tax, but, as far as tax restrictions go, you can do a lot better than Prop 13.
Who are the beneficiaries of Prop 13? Um, anyone owning land in 1978. The losers? Anyone who bought after -- the lower taxes and lower rate of increase is priced into the new land prices. So the infinitely large set of people who will be buying the land later at its new, "connected to reality" price, doesn't get any benefit. That cut in property taxes just transforms into a higher property bid and then a higher mortgage payment.
You ... *did* realize that property values go up as land taxes go down, right?
You would *think* that Laffer would see that the best tax cuts are the ones that increase the return to doing something socially valuable (so as to bring in more pareto-improvements), and that set is very small here: at most, there's a slightly higher return to capital improvements.
Oh, wait, I forgot, Laffer knows jack **** about real estate.
Far be it from me to say something nice about a tax, but, as far as tax restrictions go, you can do a lot better than Prop 13.
Who are the beneficiaries of Prop 13? Um, anyone owning land in 1978. The losers? Anyone who bought after -- the lower taxes and lower rate of increase is priced into the new land prices. So the infinitely large set of people who will be buying the land later at its new, "connected to reality" price, doesn't get any benefit. That cut in property taxes just transforms into a higher property bid and then a higher mortgage payment.
You ... *did* realize that property values go up as land taxes go down, right?
You would *think* that Laffer would see that the best tax cuts are the ones that increase the return to doing something socially valuable (so as to bring in more pareto-improvements), and that set is very small here: at most, there's a slightly higher return to capital improvements.
Oh, wait, I forgot, Laffer knows jack **** about real estate.
In a "Krugman vs Krugman" debate both sides switch positions at the end and neither one loses!
Why are we wasting ink on this guy? Oh yeah, I forgot. He writes for the NY times...
Why are we wasting ink on this guy? Oh yeah, I forgot. He writes for the NY times...
Silas,
Give me a break. Arthur Laffer knows more about supply-side tax reform than you (or me).
You might like this article [.pdf] if you haven't seen it before. It mixes two of the areas in which you know more than us.
Give me a break. Arthur Laffer knows more about supply-side tax reform than you (or me).
You might like this article [.pdf] if you haven't seen it before. It mixes two of the areas in which you know more than us.
Knapp,
I understand the logic of lowering marginal rates and broadening the base; I wrote a whole pamphlet on a flat income tax for California.
I think Rothbard and I are being consistent here: We understand why, given a revenue objective, it's best to have a tax system designed such-and-so.
But in the real world, anytime the government slashes a particular tax by more than 50% in one fell swoop, that's awesome, especially if the measure has spending restraints in it.
You seem to think (like Krugman) that California was a normal state, just minding its own fiscal business, when all of a sudden the crazy rent seeking homeowners pushed through a measure to escape paying their fair share. So the government had no choice but to raise the state income tax rates to the first or second highest in the nation, and to run budget deficits bigger than most nations' GDP.
I don't think that's what happened at all. By the late 1970s Californians couldn't take it anymore, because socialist California taxed so much from them. So they put in place a constitutional limit on one way that the pols were sucking billions from them annually.
I don't know the answer, but would it surprise you if despite Prop. 13, property taxes as a share of (state budget? personal income?) were still fairly high in CA relative to other US states? Property values are a lot higher in CA than most other places.
(Oh and yes Silas, one of Laffer's biggest points was that the government's revenue wouldn't drop as much as the static calculations suggested, since (a) other tax collections would go up and (b) land values would rise. I hope you don't think you need to explain the Laffer Curve to Laffer.)
I understand the logic of lowering marginal rates and broadening the base; I wrote a whole pamphlet on a flat income tax for California.
I think Rothbard and I are being consistent here: We understand why, given a revenue objective, it's best to have a tax system designed such-and-so.
But in the real world, anytime the government slashes a particular tax by more than 50% in one fell swoop, that's awesome, especially if the measure has spending restraints in it.
You seem to think (like Krugman) that California was a normal state, just minding its own fiscal business, when all of a sudden the crazy rent seeking homeowners pushed through a measure to escape paying their fair share. So the government had no choice but to raise the state income tax rates to the first or second highest in the nation, and to run budget deficits bigger than most nations' GDP.
I don't think that's what happened at all. By the late 1970s Californians couldn't take it anymore, because socialist California taxed so much from them. So they put in place a constitutional limit on one way that the pols were sucking billions from them annually.
I don't know the answer, but would it surprise you if despite Prop. 13, property taxes as a share of (state budget? personal income?) were still fairly high in CA relative to other US states? Property values are a lot higher in CA than most other places.
(Oh and yes Silas, one of Laffer's biggest points was that the government's revenue wouldn't drop as much as the static calculations suggested, since (a) other tax collections would go up and (b) land values would rise. I hope you don't think you need to explain the Laffer Curve to Laffer.)
(Oh and yes Silas, one of Laffer's biggest points was that the government's revenue wouldn't drop as much as the static calculations suggested, since (a) other tax collections would go up and (b) land values would rise. I hope you don't think you need to explain the Laffer Curve to Laffer.)[lb]
I didn't say otherwise, and I didn't think I'd need to explain this to Laffer, and wouldn't even consider such a mistake, if Laffer ever did make it.
As usual, you're just pattern-matching my points to the nearest stupid argument you can find, and then "sagely" refuting it. Let's try this again.
Look at Prop 13 from the perspective of anyone other than a 1978 California land owner. Look at the process of buying land.
"Hm, land tax is kept lower ... so lower cost of ownership ... so I can bid more."
Pre Prop 13: A house costs you $100k plus NPV of $50k in taxes.
Post Prop 13: the same house costs $125k plus NPV of $25 in taxes. Whoo hoo! (Realistic numbers would look different, but the same point applies.)
And before you respond by saying, "So you think all tax cuts are offset by increases in price?", just think for a minute -- heck, 10 seconds is all I ask for -- why the same point might not apply for tax cuts on sales or income.
I didn't say otherwise, and I didn't think I'd need to explain this to Laffer, and wouldn't even consider such a mistake, if Laffer ever did make it.
As usual, you're just pattern-matching my points to the nearest stupid argument you can find, and then "sagely" refuting it. Let's try this again.
Look at Prop 13 from the perspective of anyone other than a 1978 California land owner. Look at the process of buying land.
"Hm, land tax is kept lower ... so lower cost of ownership ... so I can bid more."
Pre Prop 13: A house costs you $100k plus NPV of $50k in taxes.
Post Prop 13: the same house costs $125k plus NPV of $25 in taxes. Whoo hoo! (Realistic numbers would look different, but the same point applies.)
And before you respond by saying, "So you think all tax cuts are offset by increases in price?", just think for a minute -- heck, 10 seconds is all I ask for -- why the same point might not apply for tax cuts on sales or income.
Silas,
Right, they buy the house at the higher capitalized value, and then they know that the tax rate can never go up without a constitutional amendment.
Also, Prop. 13 required a supermajority for other tax hikes; it wasn't just a property tax cap.
Right, they buy the house at the higher capitalized value, and then they know that the tax rate can never go up without a constitutional amendment.
Also, Prop. 13 required a supermajority for other tax hikes; it wasn't just a property tax cap.
Another thing, Silas: As bothers Knapp, the property tax cut draws forth more houses. So in the new equilibrium, a couple moving into CA from out of state can get a bigger house for the same price as under Prop. 13.
(That's right, isn't it? I haven't had caffeine yet but I think that has to be right.)
(That's right, isn't it? I haven't had caffeine yet but I think that has to be right.)
@Bob_Murphy: Right, they buy the house at the higher capitalized value, and then they know that the tax rate can never go up without a constitutional amendment.[nb]
Right. So, the effect of (this part of) Prop 13 was to give a big endowment (I won't say windfall) to landowners in 1978. Everyone else has the same total cost of ownership. One comparison I've seen is to rent control: when otherwise people would have to move, Prop 13 immunizes them from having to recognize the opportunity cost of this privilege. (I call it a privilege because, even though taxes are bad, etc., Prop 13 only benenfited a select class of people.)
So, again, you throw a big, one-time endowment affect onto a group of people. This increases the return to productive activity because _____?
Another thing, Silas: As bothers Knapp, the property tax cut draws forth more houses. So in the new equilibrium, a couple moving into CA from out of state can get a bigger house for the same price as [before] Prop. 13.[lb]
Show your work. And Knapp's point was that this is a redirection of wealth, with poor allocative efficiency, not generation of greater overall wealth.
(And just so I'm clear, it's not that Prop 13 was "bad", it's just the least good tax restraint policy.)
Right. So, the effect of (this part of) Prop 13 was to give a big endowment (I won't say windfall) to landowners in 1978. Everyone else has the same total cost of ownership. One comparison I've seen is to rent control: when otherwise people would have to move, Prop 13 immunizes them from having to recognize the opportunity cost of this privilege. (I call it a privilege because, even though taxes are bad, etc., Prop 13 only benenfited a select class of people.)
So, again, you throw a big, one-time endowment affect onto a group of people. This increases the return to productive activity because _____?
Another thing, Silas: As bothers Knapp, the property tax cut draws forth more houses. So in the new equilibrium, a couple moving into CA from out of state can get a bigger house for the same price as [before] Prop. 13.[lb]
Show your work. And Knapp's point was that this is a redirection of wealth, with poor allocative efficiency, not generation of greater overall wealth.
(And just so I'm clear, it's not that Prop 13 was "bad", it's just the least good tax restraint policy.)
Show your work.
OK, before Prop. 13, builders would pump $100,000 of total costs (including interest and return for the risk etc.) into a new house of quality X that fetches $100,000 on the market.
They pass Prop. 13, and overnight the value of houses of quality X shoot up to $120,000 (or whatever).
So now homebuilders have a huge arbitrage. It costs them $100,000 to build a $120,000 product, so they build a bunch more.
In other words, the supply curve is pushed out.
Homes of quality X end up costing in between $100,000 and $120,000. (Where it ends up, depends on how much input prices rise for homebuilding.)
But we already know that a house of quality X for $120,000 was the same deal for homeowners, so now to get a home of quality X at less than that (with Prop. 13 in place) makes them better off, compared to new homeowners pre-Prop. 13.
Basically, the original homeowners don't capture all of the (public choice) rent, because the supply of houses isn't fixed. So competition makes them share some of it with homebuilders and homebuyers.
OK, before Prop. 13, builders would pump $100,000 of total costs (including interest and return for the risk etc.) into a new house of quality X that fetches $100,000 on the market.
They pass Prop. 13, and overnight the value of houses of quality X shoot up to $120,000 (or whatever).
So now homebuilders have a huge arbitrage. It costs them $100,000 to build a $120,000 product, so they build a bunch more.
In other words, the supply curve is pushed out.
Homes of quality X end up costing in between $100,000 and $120,000. (Where it ends up, depends on how much input prices rise for homebuilding.)
But we already know that a house of quality X for $120,000 was the same deal for homeowners, so now to get a home of quality X at less than that (with Prop. 13 in place) makes them better off, compared to new homeowners pre-Prop. 13.
Basically, the original homeowners don't capture all of the (public choice) rent, because the supply of houses isn't fixed. So competition makes them share some of it with homebuilders and homebuyers.
Silas and Knapp:
Suppose someone invents a new spray that keeps lawns perfectly manicured without a maintenance crew or water. Overnight, the expense of maintaining a nice lawn in CA goes way down. Among other effects, property values shoot up.
Silas, would you say that's basically like imposing rent control?
Knapp, would you ask me to analyze the "distortionary effects of such a tax"?
I really don't understand what you guys are flipping out about, re: Prop. 13.
Suppose someone invents a new spray that keeps lawns perfectly manicured without a maintenance crew or water. Overnight, the expense of maintaining a nice lawn in CA goes way down. Among other effects, property values shoot up.
Silas, would you say that's basically like imposing rent control?
Knapp, would you ask me to analyze the "distortionary effects of such a tax"?
I really don't understand what you guys are flipping out about, re: Prop. 13.
Bob,
Don't you know that...
The elimination of arbitrary tax credits and other loopholes, to be replaced by a neutral flat tax on all forms of income, will encourage businesses to make decisions on the basis of profitability, not the tax code.
You should, I just pasted it from your pamplet on CA flat tax and couldn't agree with you more.
Prop 13 may have worked in the short run, but I think one unintended consequence is that it created big winners and losers via the tax code (vs. sweat and talent)
and thus created a political environment that puts CA further away from the ideal of a neutral tax. It worked as a tactic, but was a bad long term strategy.
Don't you know that...
The elimination of arbitrary tax credits and other loopholes, to be replaced by a neutral flat tax on all forms of income, will encourage businesses to make decisions on the basis of profitability, not the tax code.
You should, I just pasted it from your pamplet on CA flat tax and couldn't agree with you more.
Prop 13 may have worked in the short run, but I think one unintended consequence is that it created big winners and losers via the tax code (vs. sweat and talent)
and thus created a political environment that puts CA further away from the ideal of a neutral tax. It worked as a tactic, but was a bad long term strategy.
@Bob_Murphy: OK, before Prop. 13, builders would pump $100,000 of total costs (including interest and return for the risk etc.) into a new house of quality X that fetches $100,000 on the market.They pass Prop. 13, and overnight the value of houses of quality X shoot up to $120,000 (or whatever).So now homebuilders have a huge arbitrage. It costs them $100,000 to build a $120,000 product, so they build a bunch more.[lb]
And here's where you go wrong. They don't have an arbitrage. That original $100k they spent to make a home that fetches $100k *includes the land cost*. So there's certainly a profit from buying before Prop 13 and selling after. But once Prop 13 is in place, they have to pay more for land, and now they have to pay $120k to get an identical house that fetches $120. No incentive to produce more houses.
Suppose someone invents a new spray that keeps lawns perfectly manicured without a maintenance crew or water. Overnight, the expense of maintaining a nice lawn in CA goes way down. Among other effects, property values shoot up.
Silas, would you say that's basically like imposing rent control?[lb]
I assume this is a non-prop 13 situation. And no, it's not. If it really increases the value of land, then property tax payments go up right along with it, and people are still forced to "notice" the opportunity cost of using up valuable real estate, and have strong incentive to sell out when their productivity can no long justify using that space.
This is different from the situation that I compared to rent control, because, unlike rent control and Prop 13, it does not protect earlycomers from the costs that latecomers would have to endure: both see the same incentives.
But it's more complicated than that, because you're ignoring other dynamics that come into effect in the situation you've described. If, as Robin_Hanson takes pain to demonstrate, "neat lawns are a form of signaling wealth", this new invention needn't raise property values. Rather, a neat lawn will become expected, and people will have to go about signaling wealth in other ways: maybe additional exterior features, better siding, whatever. TCO then stays constant.
So, maybe a bad example.
And here's where you go wrong. They don't have an arbitrage. That original $100k they spent to make a home that fetches $100k *includes the land cost*. So there's certainly a profit from buying before Prop 13 and selling after. But once Prop 13 is in place, they have to pay more for land, and now they have to pay $120k to get an identical house that fetches $120. No incentive to produce more houses.
Suppose someone invents a new spray that keeps lawns perfectly manicured without a maintenance crew or water. Overnight, the expense of maintaining a nice lawn in CA goes way down. Among other effects, property values shoot up.
Silas, would you say that's basically like imposing rent control?[lb]
I assume this is a non-prop 13 situation. And no, it's not. If it really increases the value of land, then property tax payments go up right along with it, and people are still forced to "notice" the opportunity cost of using up valuable real estate, and have strong incentive to sell out when their productivity can no long justify using that space.
This is different from the situation that I compared to rent control, because, unlike rent control and Prop 13, it does not protect earlycomers from the costs that latecomers would have to endure: both see the same incentives.
But it's more complicated than that, because you're ignoring other dynamics that come into effect in the situation you've described. If, as Robin_Hanson takes pain to demonstrate, "neat lawns are a form of signaling wealth", this new invention needn't raise property values. Rather, a neat lawn will become expected, and people will have to go about signaling wealth in other ways: maybe additional exterior features, better siding, whatever. TCO then stays constant.
So, maybe a bad example.
OK guys, I need to call it quits on this one.
Knapp, I never answered your original question. I said "awesome" because of the massive tax cut. You're so used to hearing analysts debate a dinky little cut here or there, that to get a 57% (or whatever) cut in one fell swoop is amazing. It gives me hope that it's possible.
Silas, you're right I forgot about the price of the land itself, that was dumb. I still think the supply of homes goes up, because it now makes sense to bring more land into development for housing. But I might be overlooking something.
More generally, Silas, I don't see why you keep talking about opportunity costs. Are you referring to the 1% cap itself, or instead to the limit of 2% annual appreciation in assessed value, absent a sale?
If the latter, then yes that causes distortions and OK I could see how that's like rent control (vaguely).
But if the former, I still don't see it. If they abolished all property taxes, then the market price would show the opportunity cost of using land.
Knapp, I never answered your original question. I said "awesome" because of the massive tax cut. You're so used to hearing analysts debate a dinky little cut here or there, that to get a 57% (or whatever) cut in one fell swoop is amazing. It gives me hope that it's possible.
Silas, you're right I forgot about the price of the land itself, that was dumb. I still think the supply of homes goes up, because it now makes sense to bring more land into development for housing. But I might be overlooking something.
More generally, Silas, I don't see why you keep talking about opportunity costs. Are you referring to the 1% cap itself, or instead to the limit of 2% annual appreciation in assessed value, absent a sale?
If the latter, then yes that causes distortions and OK I could see how that's like rent control (vaguely).
But if the former, I still don't see it. If they abolished all property taxes, then the market price would show the opportunity cost of using land.
Bob: The term I used was something like "the taxes make them feel the opportunity cost more".
To an economist, there's no difference between opportunity costs of "you could make $800k by moving" vs. "you could make $700k by moving and dodge $100k NPV of property taxes". But to the mouthbreathers camping valuable real estate, there is.
Having to pay higher property taxes is a stronger incentive to get people to realize their opportunity costs than the economic equivalence would suggest.
So that's the similarity to rent control: both Prop 13 and rent control allow lucky earlycomers to be insulated from realizing their wastefulness ... all while latecomers envy their tax/rent situation.
To an economist, there's no difference between opportunity costs of "you could make $800k by moving" vs. "you could make $700k by moving and dodge $100k NPV of property taxes". But to the mouthbreathers camping valuable real estate, there is.
Having to pay higher property taxes is a stronger incentive to get people to realize their opportunity costs than the economic equivalence would suggest.
So that's the similarity to rent control: both Prop 13 and rent control allow lucky earlycomers to be insulated from realizing their wastefulness ... all while latecomers envy their tax/rent situation.
The sun comes up in the East...
The sun sets in the west....
The sky is blue....
Rain is wet....
Krugman contradicts self....
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The sun sets in the west....
The sky is blue....
Rain is wet....
Krugman contradicts self....
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